The most famous and dangerous carder in Russia, and in general, the entire CIS. Sergey Pavlovich stole more than one million dollars using bank cards from Americans. He paid with freedom for 10 years. He got out and did not give up. He opened a number of businesses and now legally earns millions. Illegal earnings, dark schemes and, in general, fraud are far behind. How to protect your money and card from being hacked by scammers? The answer is in this topic.
Contents:
- Start.
- I have no fear of going to Belarus – I have been to prison twice.
- What is carding and how do they steal money from bank cards?
- A homeless person approaching an ATM may also raise doubts.
- Average earnings on dark schemes on the Internet. Maximum earnings.
- What did you spend hundreds of thousands of dollars a month on?
- Sitting in prison is a very expensive pleasure.
- I thought it was my client, but it turned out to be a US secret agent. For this I got 10 years.
- The best and the most terrible prison in Belarus. Conditions.
- The most brutal stories from prison.
- Prison is not a place of correction, but a school for new crimes.
- The main conclusion after the zone.
- How pawnshops cheat.
- In prison he wrote the book “How I Stole a Million”.
- If I leave Russia or Belarus, I’m screwed!
- Working for the FBI of America.
- How did you come up with the idea to create a YouTube channel?
- Advertising in the issue 45 thousand dollars!
- How to protect your card from being hacked.
- How do police find cybercriminals?
- I was tortured in the Ukrainian Main Directorate for Combating Organized Crime.
- Earnings from YouTube per month.
- Monthly income.
The Beginning.
Nikita:
Today I will tell you the story of the most dangerous cybercriminal from Belarus, who stole more than a million dollars from Americans through bank cards.
Carder (Sergey Pavlovich):
Later, when I was already engaged in mass activity, that is, withdrawing cash from ATMs and selling and reselling this dump. It was already a hundred, maybe more than a thousand dollars a month.
Nikita:
After which he served more than ten years of penal regime in prison.
Carder:
There is such an expression sushi-sukhari, yes, like I’m going to jail. And I really was drying it there and remembered this phrase just so that at 11 o’clock I could take a rusk from the radiator and chew it.
Nikita:
I was released. Founded a number of businesses. And now he makes millions.
Carder:
There is a Ukrainian sponge, Kiev. They beat me there and tortured me there for 6 hours, in short. Stretch marks there, handcuffs beyond the borders of Russia and Belarus. So I’ll get out and that’s it, I’m screwed.
Nikita:
You ask how? You will learn all about it in this thread.
Carder:
I returned from Ukraine because I communicated with certain, well, carders there, but they were not exactly cybercriminals, they were more offline bandits, you know.
I am not afraid to go to Belarus – I was in prison twice.
Nikita:
We spend a lot of time and money on creating content for you. Meet the most dangerous cybercriminal of the CIS, Sergey Pavlovich. So, well, Sergey, hi. I have long dreamed of meeting you, getting to know you, talking. As far as I know, you are such a legendary figure among cybercriminals. And let’s start in order.
Tell us about your childhood. Where were you born, what did you do?
Carder:
I was born in Belarus and lived in 1983 quite a long time ago. And I lived there with my grandfather until I was 6 years old, and then my mother took me to Minsk, the capital. I went to school there too, but I really liked that time with my grandfather, that is, I grew up in the forest, as Lukashenko says, among animals and plants, but for me it was literally and that’s all, I still love to visit my grandfather, but, unfortunately, because of the situation in Belarus,
I haven’t been there for a year and a half, although my grandparents are 87, I would gladly go there, because if you come back in a month, they might not be there anymore, it’s old age after all.
Nikita:
Because of the situation in Belarus, you can’t go back?
Carder:
Not that I can go back, I’ve been living in Moscow for a long time, 5 years already, soon it will be 60 years since I’ve been here, but I just went at least to visit my relatives, see friends, old relatives. But now I don’t do that and probably can’t do that.
Nikita:
So there’s a fear that you’ll go there and they’ll lock you up?
Carder:
There is no fear, none at all, that is, I have already been to prison twice, I have a total of 10 years behind me, plus I am a fatalist, you know, you can’t run away from fate, but simply since they lock everyone up there and for no reason at all, I don’t know, for wearing the wrong color clothes, then for me, given my media influence and the fact that I have a lot of energy up my ass, it is better for me, of course, not to go there.
At the same time, I myself do not get into trouble, if I have the opportunity not to go, then I just do not go, so as not to expose my freedom and, possibly, my life to unnecessary risk.
What is carding and how do they steal money from bank cards?
Nikita:
Tell me in more detail, for me, a person who does not understand what carding is, what is it at all, how do you eat it?
Carder:
Well, carding, in fact, everything is very simple, it is just fraud and there is the theft of money from bank cards. The English word card is a card. Well, carding appeared, carders appeared, those who do it, are into it. But in fact, it’s essentially just theft from bank cards. Credit, debit, it doesn’t matter. We just have it in the union, you know, credit card, credit card.
That is, not entirely true, because there are both debit and credit cards. Bank cards in general, that’s right. And I got there by accident, basically, because I didn’t have any criminal inclinations, at least never any obvious ones. I was still in school, I was 14-15 years old, I was doing some legal activity on the Internet, selling something, selling sneakers, taking outlets, then Internet access didn’t have such Internet access here, but there was dial-up access via a dial-up modem, and unlimited access, in order to call a certain floor by phone, it cost 50 dollars there, I took it, sold it for 100, I had a very profitable business. But then one of my friends asked, and I was running all my commercial sovereignty on a bulletin board, like Avito now and so on, then there were simpler bulletin boards, it was the end of the 90s, there was a computer newspaper in Minsk, there was a bulletin board, well, more like a forum, now like a forum, you all know forums. And I saw credit cards being sold there, okay, they were sold and that’s it, and one of my friends asked me to buy some for him, I bought some, put all my money there, I don’t remember 300 or 500 dollars, but for me, for schoolchildren in the 90s, it was a significant amount, because the dollar had purchasing power then, so compare, well, your childhood is the most, let’s say, the 90s and now it’s about 1 to 3, that is, then the whole family lived for a month for 100 dollars, spent it on food without any problems in principle, and I spent all the money, and he didn’t pay for these cards. And I was left with a whole package of these card numbers, expiration date, CV code and so on, billing address, well, payer’s address and everything.
And in order to somehow compensate for my losses, I started buying goods from them in foreign online stores. Well, naturally, I didn’t know how to do it, well, what’s there, of course, the card number, expiration date, CV code. Well, that’s basically where it all started.
Nikita:
Do I understand correctly, you ordered these cards, there was already some money on them.
Speaker?:
Mm-hmm.
Nikita:
And what amounts were on these cards, like that on average?
Carder:
You’re barely talking about physical cards, that is, I’ve dealt with such and such, but in general, to make a purchase on the Internet using someone else’s card, all you need is the card number, expiration date, and CVV code. That is, it’s just a card and that’s it? Yes, yes, yes. Well, and the address was needed, the billing address, that is, the card owner’s address, there were none of these back then, confirmations did not come via SMS, and now, by the way, there is also a problem, confirmations do not always come, for example, Aliexpress for a small amount, you buy up to 1000 rubles there, they do not ask for an SMS, Amazon does not even ask for a CVV code, not to mention an SMS, but a CVV code, that’s all. And I had funny cases, somewhere there is a video card. Well, I tell something about cards, I show a video, people watch, pause, enlarge, and then they steal money from my card. Was this real?
Yes, it was real.
Nikita:
And how much money did you steal?
Carder:
I didn’t have much on that card, somewhere around 7 thousand rubles were stolen from Tinkoff, and very quickly, I didn’t even have time to block it, in half a minute they withdrew money from some Polish food delivery services, Iglova, something else, but Tinkoff, by the way, blocked it itself, maybe a minute later, they called me, I said, come on, in short, return it, it wasn’t me, and that’s it, they returned everything, by the way, not quickly, but probably weeks, in short, they returned it in a week or two, and they were supposed to return it in a couple of months, they said, we will wait for the payment system to return it, there, but then Tinkoff, well done, by the way, wrote, they said, we already understand that we will 100% get our funds back, we will compensate ours, so that you don’t have to wait, I say great.
And that happened, yes, and there were also physical cards, that is, there is such a concept as a dump, that is, a dump in our language was called this is all the information from the magnetic strip and plastic cards, that is, having a dump you can already pay with it in a real physical store in your area, for example, and withdraw money from an ATM, well, this is if the PIN code is still there, and dumps they were also perfectly hacked, there are all sorts of databases on the Internet my friends hacked, got these dumps and I also resold them, if they were with PIN codes then they wrote it down on any card with a magnetic strip, even on a Pyaterochka card figuratively speaking, just so that there was a magnetic strip, that is, in principle, the same for a discount card, a credit card, any card, and they withdrew money from ATMs, including, but this did not happen often. It was dangerous, yes, very dangerous, probably? No, it was not dangerous at all.
A homeless person approaching an ATM could also raise doubts.
Carder:
It is not dangerous at all, and now, by the way, a scam scheme is flourishing. Regularly, once a week, viewers of my channel “People Pro” buy from me and ask, look, they are offering such a scheme.
Well, in general, people, you know, have saddled themselves with what we did in the 90s, in the early 2000s. Now they are offering, look, there are cards with other people’s money. Let us give them money, you will withdraw, you get 50 percent and we get 50 percent. Well, first of all, even back then, in the fat times, we never paid in drops. Drops were just those who went and withdrew there.
We never paid more than 30 percent, and I know guys who paid 15 percent, well, less, yes, but here it was 50/50.
Nikita:
Well, most often it was some homeless people, probably, yes, who went and withdrew, all sorts of alcoholics.
Carder:
No, he, too, you know, a homeless person approaching an ATM can also attract unnecessary attention, that is, a certain balance is needed. No, I am familiar with this, they withdrew in different countries, that is, they tried not to withdrew their own, they withdrew in others. Well, it also happened that cards by regional block, well, in Belarus they don’t give everything, for example, certain banks there, but in Israel and America they give well, then someone had to, but it was all resolved on the Internet.
Well, now they just offer you the same scheme, but they say, send us money in advance, like for delivery, for the log, that is, you send 500 dollars and, of course, there are no cards.
Nikita:
Well, you’re being ripped off.
Carder:
Yes. To deal with this once a week. And who would buy it ?
Nikita:
These cards? Did you ever physically contact them or did you somehow send these cards by mail?
Carder:
Well, you know, we never sold cards, for example, that had a PIN code, because a card with a PIN code is like cash in your pocket, and for some reason no one sells 100 dollars for half the price, unless, of course, they are printed in Grozny or Tehran. Accordingly, we withdrew them ourselves. I also went to the monokomats, he withdrew them in Kiev without any problems.
And there were some subtleties, sometimes the card had a daily limit of 3000 dollars, but it worked out. Let’s say I was withdrawing at 23.59, going to McDonald’s, for example, and 15 minutes later I was coming, and a new day had already begun, and I had already withdrawn 6 thousand. Cards that were without a pin code.
We sold them, of course, both the dumps themselves, that is, the information, yes, the numbers themselves that are written onto the plastic, and we sold ready-made cards, and sold documents, because it happened that cashiers could demand a passport for an expensive purchase, for example, from $500. Look at the name on your card and in your passport.
Nikita:
What did you do then when they paid you?
Carder:
Nothing, it’s just that people who went abroad mainly bought in stores, they usually had, not necessarily a passport, a driver’s license was possible, or internal ones, like ID cards, Ausweis, for example, in Germany, so they made fake documents with the same name as on the card.
More precisely, the cards were probably made under the name that was already in the documents, because you made the document once and shop with it for a long time, and you constantly change cards.
Average earnings on dark schemes on the Internet. Maximum earnings.
Nikita:
And how much did you earn on average per month on these schemes? At the beginning of your journey and already when you were at the very peak?
Carder:
Well, at the beginning, when I was doing this particular carding of clothes, i.e. I was pulling these things from the Internet, all sorts of equipment, there were no mobile phones back then.
Nikita:
Do you understand correctly, I was pulling them here and selling them right away?
Carder:
Yes, yes. Well, or we were pulling them into the former Soviet Union, i.e. into the CIS, into our native countries and selling them here. Then, by the way, this scheme practically stopped working, because we had already worn them out so much that they, seeing Belarus there, for example, did not send them. But there was also a subtlety, we wrote, we ordered to Germany, for example, and wrote in the field, there is a street, let’s say, or a city, Weiss Rusland we wrote, that is, Belarus.
In the same way, we wrote to Russia, to Rusland and that’s it. And in Germany they simply thought that they had mixed something up, or they simply sent it to the drops in those countries, that is, to the Americans, to the Europeans, and they simply sent it by mail, or there were already certain buying services there, where they bought directly and sold, that is, people created it in the States, they have a whole network of drops in different States, everything for convenience, it went to their people, and they, let’s say, immediately upon arrival of the parcel, for example, cash you 40%, that is, you do not need to fight with sales. I probably made the most money on the resale of dumps.
Carder:
Dumps, passports and all sorts of other things for making cards, then there were skimmers, all sorts of portable devices to read the card. We loved, by the way, in Kyiv they gave a lot to prostitutes, waiters in restaurants, and they simply read the clients’ cards through a small reader, it’s like a matchbox just with a slot, it sends you photos, you insert it and that’s it, you read the card unnoticed and then you simply either withdraw with it yourself or sell it.
Well, in general, when I was just doing this carding for things, it was from 150-50, probably, to 300 dollars a month, well, at those prices. Up to 500, probably, at the peak.
Nikita:
Well, that was not bad, right, very good?
Carder:
Well, that was still a drop in the ocean. And then, when I was already doing it on a large scale, that is, withdrawing cash from ATMs, and selling these dumps, reselling them, and passports were already 100, maybe more than 1000 dollars a month. I had a high profitability, a passport cost me one hundred and fifty euros, and I sold it for one and a half thousand dollars.
Nikita:
And where did you find clients? Through the Darknet? And it didn’t even exist back then?
Carder:
Well, Darknet didn’t exist, TOR didn’t exist back then, no one knew, you know what we used? We all used ICQ, that is, there was no Viber, no Whatsapp, no Telegram, especially. Well, Jabber appeared, yes, that is, it is a protocol like ICQ, only more secure, still very secure with certain settings. I had my own carder forum. I was immediately, well, naturally, on other carder forums.
Carder.org was the first, then CarderPlanet.com appeared on them. But somehow, you know, there were already enough of such smart guys who sold cards, dumps and documents there before me, so I looked.
I was on normal terms with everyone, in general, But I was honest there, I made my own forum, called Domsmarket.
Nikita:
And many ran over to you there?
Carder:
Well, not that they ran over, they just registered with me too. And you know, even then, now we are on your YouTube channel, I have two channels, on YouTube, on Telegram and so on. Even then I clearly understood the power, that is, of owning a certain media.
Nikita:
Aidzus, yes.
Carder:
Yes, that is, even a small forum, I had maybe three thousand registered participants at its peak, it gave a lot of power, you are like, you know, you feel like almost a god, I’ll explain now, well, firstly, you can ban some idiot, that is, you already feel some kind of power, secondly, many more connections of all kinds appear, acquaintances with all sorts of cool people who are more in the subject than you and smarter than you many times, and from different countries, and all this gives acquaintances, accordingly, new topics, more income and more influence of yours in general in this world, that is, it doesn’t matter in whom criminal, as now we have simply in society, through our YouTube channels and so on, so I can give advice, quickly create some small media of your own, it doesn’t matter a blog and so on.
What did you spend hundreds of thousands of dollars a month on?
Nikita:
Listen, I’ve just gone a little off topic, so at your peak you were earning $100,000 a month, what did you spend that money on?
Did you earn $100,000 yourself, didn’t you split it with anyone?
Carder:
It was clean for me.
Nikita:
What did you spend that money on?
Carder:
Yeah, I always kind of, you know, understood deep down that I’d have to go to jail, maybe more or less. Well, it’s not that I wanted to go to jail, but there could be some legal issues. And I, accordingly, saved most of it. So, what did I spend then?
Nikita:
Saved it, as it looked, in an iPhone, in a bank somewhere.
Carder:
I downloaded in cash, I had money for my operational needs, there were always five to ten thousand on WebMoney, because at that time we had WebMoney for the main payments, there was no crypto, no, cards were not widespread and so on, and the rest in cash I just put in a suitcase, I had a track on such an aluminum suitcase, I put it in there, and my grandfather kept it in my
village.
Sitting in prison is a very expensive pleasure.
Nikita:
Let’s run a little ahead, when you were imprisoned, when you got out, did you keep all the money?
Carder:
No, not all, at the time of my arrest it was 1200 dollars, then I kept getting more, every month it was replenished for me from different topics, but sitting in prison is a different kind of pleasure, I spent it there on various needs, the first time I spent, I can’t say what I spent it on, but overall, in two and a half years in prison the first time I spent 196 thousand, well, my woman spent probably forty thousand, well, somewhere around one hundred and fifty thousand dollars, that’s what I spent on…
Nikita:
In two and a half years in prison?
Carder:
Yeah.
Nikita:
What did you do there, you can’t say that.
Carder:
Well, I was there for two and a half years, that’s all.
Nikita:
And skydiving.
Carder:
How much did they give you? I served from 6 to 15, initially. I served 2.5. But I served in light conditions, I essentially didn’t understand anything, didn’t draw any conclusions, because I was sitting in a normal cell, DVDs and other jokes. Did you have everything? Food, everything.
Nikita:
Whatever you want.
Carder:
Yeah, not that I was completely green, not more brazen, but what was necessary. And accordingly, I didn’t make it to the zone and I didn’t draw any conclusions. I had a year and a half of investigation there, all sorts of trials. And after the trial, I spent another year in a pretrial detention center, I read books, lay on a bunk, watched movies and that’s it. Well, what conclusions do you know? That’s it, I was released and started doing the same thing.
Nikita:
That’s the best approach, right?
I thought it was my client, but it turned out to be a US secret agent. I got 10 years for that.
Carder:
No, I’m the opposite. My second charge is for smaller amounts, much fewer deals. I didn’t like it anymore, I had already started producing vodka, I was starting to get into some other business, I didn’t like crime anymore.
But I still had a few deals, I sold, maybe I’ll give 20, I didn’t sell, but I gave it to my debtors in St. Petersburg so that they would just pay up, so that they could work it off and return the money to me, and I also sold a few thousand dumps, literally one or two deals to one guy from the States. I thought it was our old client, because he had been with me somewhere for five years, but it turned out to be a special agent under cover of the US Secret Service, and he had been developing me for many, many years. Well, that was it, and that formed the basis of the charge, the Americans sent the charge to Belarus, and, in short, they gave me 10 years for that.
They asked for 15, well, it’s crazy. Well, there was also a personal conflict with the cops, because when I was released the first time, they all wanted to protect me. The same operatives who took me down the first time. Yes, yes, yes, they wanted, well, it wasn’t said directly, but veiled, that’s how it sounded.
They were arrested later, and I somehow had the imprudence to testify against them at the KGB, well, I simply told them that in my case it looked like this, so they called me, well, in fact, I didn’t make anything up, I told them the situation, but in fact I testified against them, and thus I turned the KAVS department where they worked against me, and now they’re arresting me for the second time, it’s clear that I won’t get 2-3-5 years there.
And I have an article from 6 to 15, I am asking for 14.5, that is, the prosecutor at the trial is asking me for 15 years in fact, but they give me 10, they give me 10, and such are the judges in Belarus, he had no right to me, according to the law, he had no right to give me less, 11.3 I had a start, considering a number of different articles, these numbers in my sentence, charges, he had no right to give me less than 11.3, he did not even know this, well, okay, he gave less in my favor, I am grateful to him, everything is great, but in general even judges do not know the laws. That is, one fool asks for 15 years, the second gives it differently than according to the code. And here, of course, I have already sat longer, from this ten, there are a couple of amnesties here and there, how much? I served 7.5 years.
Nikita:
2.5 of those from the first trip and 7.5 from the second.
The best and the most terrible prison in Belarus. Conditions.
Carder:
Total 10. And I had already reached the zone, and I was like in the best zone in the country. IK-8 Morsha. A strict regime zone. Every fourth person has a phone. Even the roosters there have mobile phones, and more than one. In reality, I always had 2-3 mobile phones. One in my pocket, one somewhere nearby. One, then two somewhere else.
Hidden very deep, buried right on the street. It was an awesome zone. Then I was in the deep IK-13. The deep is the second worst zone in Belarus, because the only ones worse were the hills.
Nikita:
Where are the activists… What regime was worse? The red-red one, there was nothing at all, no cell phone, no telephones, no communication?
Carder:
Yes, for a cell phone, let’s say, in the deep one, where I was, they would have unscrewed 100%, sent you to the closed one, or even unscrewed you under 411 and added, like in my case, 2-2 years. In Belarus, there is such an article, it is still 411 of the Criminal Code of the Republic of Belarus. Like, you are a malicious violator of the detention regime. And any of us can be made a malicious violator. By planting a phone? No, why, it’s simpler, for 3 reports. 2-3 reports, you are already a malicious violator.
Nikita:
Train 2, train 2.
Carder:
The cops tell you, go clean the toilet. Yeah, okay, you’re sitting in the isolation cell, let’s say, alone and so on, so what, you’ll clean the toilet yourself and the thief will clean it, any will do, you’re sitting there, it has to be clean. With you, right? Of course, yes, there’s nothing strange about that, but according to our already established tradition of hierarchy, if there are roosters in the squad, that is, well, in the isolation cell it’s understandable, and in the squad the roosters clean, let’s say, the corridors there, carry trash cans and everything, wash toilets, well, and here the trash tells you, go, in short, but if you do that, then you’ll ruin your life for the rest of your life, yes, even though it’s a tautology. And that’s it, you naturally refuse, naturally, 99 and 9 will refuse. And he writes a report that you refused to comply with a legal requirement. That’s it, one is already a violation.
Then they’ll write you a second one for not buttoning your top button, they’ll write you a third one for not shaving, although you shaved in the morning, it’s just that you’re already leaving work at 5 pm, say, from the industrial park or from the canteen at lunchtime, and your part is a little overgrown. Well, like me, I have a lot now, but generally a little overgrown. That’s it. He’ll come and say you’re not shaved. That’s it, he’ll write a third report. That’s it, done.
Nikita:
Two years?
Carder:
Yes, they can do it for up to two years, yes, quite well. If the article you’re serving is less serious, then up to a year, and if it’s serious, then up to two years. They keep telling you more and more, and the saddest thing is that two more years, God bless him, but this cycle never ends. I mean, I saw a man who served 20 from 10, he was a Mexican.
Nikita:
What position is he in, some kind of criminal, right?
Carder:
Well, yes, yes, yes. But overall, he was already tired of it, he was already an old man there at that time. I saw one guy, he came in somewhere around 7 months old, he had some kind of imprisonment, there for some kind of theft, they gave him chemistry, then a change of regime, and in the end they twisted him 6 or 7 times, they added up to a year, they couldn’t add more than a year, I think they twisted him 6 times, and in the end he served about 7 years, about half a year.
And, yes, he didn’t sign there, he had papers, he was also a constant malicious violator there, but he wasn’t a blatov at all, just a normal guy who didn’t want to sign these cop papers, and so he ended up serving almost 7 years.
The toughest stories from prison.
Nikita:
Interesting. Tough. Tell him the toughest stories from prison that you’ve ever seen.
Carder:
You know, maybe I was lucky, or I never saw anything that brutal. No one was beaten there in my presence. For example. I never saw it. Never seen it. I was in the pretrial detention center in Volodarka, and I was in Zhodino there, and it turns out I was in two zones. That is, there was no outright cruelty, just being there is cruel, some moron, an 18-year-old brat makes you shave three times, well, that’s some kind of reasonable framework, you shave once a day in the morning, that’s already sadism, mockery, that’s the most terrible thing, all the terrible insanity that is present there, prohibitions, a terrible information famine, when you can’t pass on books, everything was fine with me with books, and with magazines, and with the Internet on a prohibited mobile phone, but in general now you can’t pass on literature to Belarusian pretrial detention centers and zones. Only textbooks.
Nikita:
You can’t pass on books?
Carder:
Yes. A long time ago. Several years. You can only pass on textbooks. Maybe in some zones there is still something left that can be done, but the guys have just complained, maybe in some separate ones there is still something left. Well, try passing it to the pretrial detention center now, to that TsIP on Okrestino, try passing a book to the pretrial detention center at all. You can only pass on textbooks.
Nikita:
People are just getting stupid while they sit. They are just getting stupid.
Carder:
So here it is. And it is scary, information hunger is the most scary thing, because it is physical hunger, well, it is not scary, I had conflicts with the cops there, I declared all sorts of hunger strikes, well, a little there, you can say that I did not go hungry. Well, somewhere yes, lack of food in the isolation ward, you sit in a bur, for example, I was once caught with a mobile phone for 3 months of bur, they immediately gave me a month of isolation in a punishment cell, then 3 months of bur, well yes, I was actually underfed there, breakfast at 6 in the morning, at 6.20 upon awakening, then at 14:00 lunch, you have an 8-hour break between breakfast and lunch, well and then at 14:00 lunch and at 17:00 dinner, for example, and it turns out that it is unevenly structured, you have an 8-hour break from the morning until lunch, and what, and they feed you in the morning, I don’t know, some kind of porridge with water, there is millet, liquid, for example, a piece of bread and weak tea with sugar, and on such a ration you will not last 8 hours in any case, you had to dry some kind of bread, here are some crackers to dry, there is such an expression “dry crackers”, like get ready for prison, but I really I was drying it and recalling this phrase, just to take a cracker from the radiator at 11 o’clock and chew it, that’s what’s scary, all sorts of stupid prohibitions, when there I don’t know, when a T-shirt with a collar like yours or mine is allowed, but a T-shirt of the floor is not, when deodorant is not allowed, but at the same time there is, let’s say, tooth powder, here in the list of all sorts of permitted items and goods and things there is tooth powder, but there is no deodorant, that is, how old is this list, well, about 60 years, that is, it has been going on since about the 40s, slightly changing light, but we live there according to the order and way of life of the 60s.
Clothes are scary in general, they give out these tarpaulin boots, it’s impossible to walk in them, your feet are rubbed raw. Then of course you can hang around in the zone, pay a little somewhere for a pack of cigarettes, let’s say two like Winston, they’ll bring you some normal boots, you’ll get a suit or something, a quilted jacket, but you have to hang around for all of this.
And these bans on books, on food, you can’t buy much food now, deodorants and everything, well, they make you confused, and you think, my God, what madness, they only deprived me of my freedom, and now they want to deprive me of my mind, and all of this is generally scary, in my opinion.
Prison is not a place of correction, but a school for new crimes.
Nikita:
Do you think prison changes people, educates them somehow, re-educates them from the criminal underworld?
Carder:
Well, you know, there is a common phrase like, that our prison doesn’t correct anyone, but I think that yes, it doesn’t correct anyone, because we see this in the huge percentage of recidivism, that is, in our country and in prosperous countries like the West, even in the States it’s less, although the States are not far behind us in terms of prison subculture, there is still less and in Europe in general the percentage of recidivism is small, for example in the West, so we already, at least by this indicator, apparently, that it doesn’t correct anyone.
And really, I don’t know, I probably entered the number, maybe 5 percent, again, after the second term, that I completely changed my worldview, that is, my occupation and so on. Crime is still running in circles, that is, it narrows the scope of your creativity.
That is, as a rule, you have some kind of narrow specialization in crime. Yes, even in carding, okay, I was involved in one scam today, another tomorrow and so on, every day some 10 different crimes, but it still all comes down to.
Nikita:
Steal, deceive, right?
Carder:
Yes, everything revolves around a card of bank accounts and you just steal money from them in different ways. The same car thief, yeah, well, he drives these, these cars, okay, that’s it, he has one specialization and it’s quite narrow and uninteresting, in general, when you’re in business, in the media and so on, I have 20 different areas now in business and in the media, and a bunch of interesting acquaintances.
Nikita:
And every day there are more and more of them, right?
Carder:
Well, yeah, no, it’s not money, I’m already doing well with money.
Nikita:
And what did I mean, acquaintances?
Carder:
More acquaintances, yeah, and more drive, more projects and more interest in life, so at a certain point I realized that crime is like running in circles. If I continue to do it, then sooner or later, no matter how smart and cunning, dodgy and experienced you are, there is still a human factor and so on, I will still end up in prison sooner or later, and I definitely didn’t want to end up there for the third time after the zone, because it’s all tough no matter how you look at it.
But in the zone, that same Davidych, he would have reached the zone, maybe he would have become a man, although it’s unlikely, but overall it’s very bad that he didn’t reach the zone, because it would have been useful for many of us, now I once carelessly spoke about Khovansky, I said, why are you worrying, everything will be fine with him, and this and prison will be good for him, they won’t give him that long a term, maybe he’ll just get some time served, you know, we’ll find out soon, maybe they’ll give him a short term, well, he’ll stop drinking, rethink his values, stock up on content for three years in advance. The regime will put things in order, his health will improve without alcohol, etc. The daily routine, poor nutrition, so essentially only advantages.
And even if it can be in the first days, either you or I, like any of us, perceive it as a disaster, grief, negativity, oh damn, a disaster happened, they locked me up, then years later, when you look back on this situation somehow negatively, it doesn’t matter prison, not prison, which in the past, as a rule, I don’t know about everyone, I think for most, but for me, all these situations definitely went for the good, well, like according to this phrase, everything that happens is for the best, so I don’t worry about Khovansky at all.
It was a shame that Davidych didn’t come, maybe he would have lost his arrogance, because in the zone you understand your worth very well. That is, if I say it in one phrase, it makes the strong stronger, the weak weaker. And that’s where you really show yourself very quickly.
Who is who. Yes. Not even in the pretrial detention center, because in the pretrial detention center you can slip through the cracks, that’s how you see it. Or how it all happened to me, it was great, that is, I’m lying on my bunk for two and a half years, I don’t have any moral choices, I’m not faced with any, life doesn’t face me with any moral choices, where I can act badly or fairly, conscientiously, well. And in the zone, such situations arise around you all the time, every day. And I tested myself well, I know my weaknesses, now my strengths, I even have them written down in a separate notebook.
And I try not to allow situations where I can show some kind of weakness, just not allow them.
The main conclusion after the zone.
Carder:
And probably the most important conclusion that I have understood after all these years, and maybe there is another one, is to treat others the way I live now, to treat others the way you want to be treated.
We hear this phrase since childhood, but we don’t understand, yes, and even now I have the opportunity to do some not entirely honest, unsightly things, and every time I have some opportunity, or some devil whispers that I can shortchange someone, underpay, cheat someone, act unfairly, steal something, I always somehow, this is already a given, I just put myself in that person’s place for a minute, and I’m like, you know, well, I would like for me to, for me to act like that myself, And this is very sobering, and you begin to live correctly, fairly, in harmony with people and with the world.
Even a simple example, I have all sorts of advertising on my channel, we were filming a show about BDSM now, it’s probably a little later than yours will be out, and we just wrote with an expo, a ready-made show, we won’t insert advertising into it, we wrote with an expo, let’s throw your link to your store under the video, yes, some of us, well, we just wrote to 10 random shops, some responded, and paid 500 dollars right away, purely symbolically, and then their competitor writes, says 2 thousand, if they will never be under your video and we will, well, we will constantly take advertising from you.
Well, my deputy, who is in charge of all these issues, well, he was happy, agreed, I said no, Well, no, first of all, we’ve already shaken hands.
Nikita:
Agreed, yes, money already?
Carder:
Yes, yes. And all this also says that you just need to put yourself in others’ shoes and live fairly.
Nikita:
And then it will be rewarded doubly.
How pawnshops cheat.
Carder:
So it pays off, yes, I notice. The reputation is getting stronger, trust is growing in general. Money is like that. Two and a half years ago, now in December it will be three years, I took the last chain left there from the carder times to a pawnshop.
Although I already had a cashback service, more than 100 thousand dollars were invested in it, I had some money to rent an apartment in Moscow and for food, but nothing more, sometimes I even had to buy food of a lower class, in Moscow there is a problem with food in fact, with the same sausage and other things, in Belarus It is all basically not bad, but in Moscow for normal sausage it will cost three times more than an ordinary one. Really, sometimes I didn’t have enough money, of course, and I took the chain to the pawnshop to celebrate the New Year with friends, well, modestly again.
Fortunately, the chain was, I don’t know, about 60 grams, I think there, made of white gold. Well, of course I was deceived at the pawnshop, just like you and many of you would have been deceived.
I came, there was white gold, 750 sample I think, but they kept saying, it would be cool, gold, but they didn’t care about melting it down, it was good, the weave was like Shepard’s, and they took acid, dripped it on this one, said, well, it’s gold, but the sample is smaller, it doesn’t reach the declared one, and what are you going to do? You only have the alternative to turn around and say – oh well, thanks, no thanks, go to another one.
The same thing will happen in another one, I’m sure. Or you yourself should get him this device with acid and say – what are you, an idiot, I’m a certified chemist myself, let’s take a look again now. Well, accordingly, since I am not a chemist, I had to give it away, it would have been somewhere around 1200 dollars, but this way it is 200 cheaper, there is 1000.
But this is a peculiar business, I have a single viewer And the owner of the pawnshops also wants to come and tell what it looks like.
Nikita:
They also make the same topics, right?
Carder:
I don’t know what they make, maybe even 10 times worse. But we will find out soon.
In prison, he wrote a book “How I Stole a Million”.
Nikita:
Tell me, how did you come up with the idea to write a book? You wrote it in prison, I understand. Did you immediately plan that you would monetize it, sell it in large print runs? Or did you think to write for yourself, for your loved ones, so that they could read what you did in prison?
Carder:
Well, I don’t sell large print runs now either.
Nikita:
But still, you monetized it and make money from it.
Carder:
Yes, I monetized it, but I earn from it, I don’t know, 500 thousand dollars a month from sales of the Russian-language version, well, and about the same amount from sales of the English-language version. I published it on Amazon, fortunately you can publish a book yourself on Amazon, no problem, you upload the text, it’s just a PDF in English, well, and pay for the translation, add pictures, and that’s it, and sell it. And I wrote it like, well, it was like my diary, it was so easy.
And it helped me a lot to maintain my mental health.
Nikita:
Hide your name, right?
Carder:
Well, yes, and I was immersed in memories, mentally flying far away from this stinking prison cell, and it was much easier. Well, pleasant memories, by the way, about girls, about my beloved girlfriend, some parties, friends in different countries, earnings. Then I thought about getting some fame with it.
Well, not on a global scale, but fame, so that I could appear in the press.
Nikita:
Were you already planning there that you would get out and all this would happen?
Carder:
No, I needed it while I was in prison, I wanted to release it and ask for clemency. Somehow, more or less, they recognized me after the book and asked for clemency. Well, naturally, no one reads it there, I asked because I had already done everything in prison that depended on me for my release, really everything, but the last thing was have mercy.
Nothing helped, then I relaxed, understood, accepted it, humility, which means that the churchmen also say “God’s will” for everything, no one explains, well, God’s will is just humility, essentially, before the will of higher powers in relation to you, that is, you know that you did everything to change the situation, purely in front of yourself, nothing worked, all that remains is to accept it as the will of higher powers, use it to the maximum, try and accept that you still need it for something and after many years you won’t even regret it.
And when I accepted, everything was very easy, I served a few years, they accepted the amnesty and I was released. But the book, of course, gave fame, but not for the pardon. In general, after that, when I arrived in Moscow, journalists from all sorts of TV channels began to eat. Dozhd was the first to press. Well, and in general all the federal ones, then CNN, Fox News, ABC News, but they all ask the same thing, I’m not particularly interested.
I still communicate with Western channels, I stopped with Russian ones on principle, I very rarely give interviews to anyone from Russian channels, well, that’s if I’ve known people for a long time.
If I leave Russia or Belarus, I’m screwed!
Carder:
I did not steal anything from the residents or citizens of Belarus. There it was all against America and European countries, but mainly against the USA. Accordingly, they punished me at any cost, just to take revenge. At the time of the crime, I was on the territory of the Republic of Belarus. I have no claim, but I served 10 years there, and by the way, the States still want me to serve more time there.
Nikita:
Oh, so you went to the States and served another 10 years there?
Carder:
So not only to the States, but outside of Russia and Belarus in general, I’ll leave and that’s it, I’m screwed.
Nikita:
Oh, you’re not leaving?
Carder:
No, I’m not leaving.
Nikita:
So, it turns out, you’re wanted?
Carder:
Well, in the USA, yes, yes, internationally.
Nikita:
Oh, wow.
Carder:
But that’s nonsense, because I’ve already served time for that, you know. All the American episodes for which they want to put me in jail, they were in my case, it’s just a gap in international law.
Nikita:
Between communication Belarus, America, Asia.
Carder:
Yes, yes, double joe purdy it’s called, that is, double punishment, avoidance of double punishment.
Nikita:
Then the question is, why did you sit in Belarus then, in fact?
Carder:
Well, I also ask myself this question, the States recognize if you only served time on their territory, or sometimes they recognize Great Britain if you served time, they don’t take into account any Belarusian term. But I talked to secret service agents, to those entrenched, if they don’t have such positions, but in our opinion this is like a general’s level, they also say, yes, we don’t mind, come work for us for a couple of years, help us with something, we’ll also help you with a residence permit, if you want to stay later.
And I might, you know, go and work, but again And again, it would be possible to do this, because I no longer had a moral choice, I would not have been caught ratting out my friends, colleagues and former comrades there, well, simply because 100 years have passed, some of them are already in prison, some have died, some something else, and I don’t even remember them, I don’t even remember a single nickname, 20 years have passed.
Working for the FBI of America.
Carder:
Maybe I would have worked, but they also add that the scheme looks somehow. You arrive, you are arrested, but they petition the court that this is our guy, release him on bail under our responsibility. And you sit with this GPS bracelet and work for them for 2-3 years.
Nikita:
Sitting how? Living?
Carder:
Yeah, you live in Washington, usually in the District of Columbia. You go to work at the FBI office and the secret service, well, something like that.
Nikita:
Do they pay you a salary? Rent an apartment?
Carder:
Well, I don’t know how much they pay there, but of course they will give it. Naturally, you live in the apartment that they pay for, I don’t know what the money comes out to. I know one person, he’s been with them for four years, a very valuable person. He’s from Russia, from Belarus? CIS, but not from these countries.
And in terms of hacking, you know, he’s very valuable, in terms of hacking networks, websites and everything else, and they keep him, and maybe they’ll keep him for a couple more years, because, well, they’re constantly artificially dragging out the process so that the person can work for them longer.
Nikita:
In general, he’s already done his job before us, he just values us in such a way that they don’t want to let him in, and he comes up with a reason, yes, why he should stay.
Carder:
Well, they told me that I’d work for us for 2-3 years and that’s it. Well, maybe that’s how it was, maybe I wouldn’t have made such a scene. But they still add that the court will put an end to it. That is, your case will be heard by the court, and the judge may not take into account what you did for America. But good for them, that they at least honestly state this, that force majeure may still happen. But, as practice shows, people who left under such a program, everything is fine there.
The judge says, yes, no problem, let him go freely, you have a suspended sentence. That is, they are more willing to negotiate in any respect, in business, even in the sphere of law, that is, jurisprudence, that is, a capitalist country. But we do not have the right to punish at any price. But now the case seems to have moved forward, because I was the one who spoke with the special services, and the prosecutor’s office didn’t know that I had already served time for this, and my American lawyer, I have a lawyer now, he accidentally got hold of my prosecutor, found out that some new prosecutor was assigned to my case, called him, even sent him my book in English, he read it, but I don’t know his opinion yet, and he says, and we don’t know, that he served time for this. If you prove to us now that he was punished for this, for our American episodes, we are not against closing the case, we will send it to court, write that we are not against it, he has already been convicted for this, as if he was in court, as he wants, he will decide, but we personally are not against it, the chances are high, and my mother has just handed me my Belarusian sentences, I will send them to the States in a few days, they will translate them into English, we will see, maybe some additional documents will be required, but some glimmer has already appeared, because, to be honest, I am not really happy to sit in the framework of Russia and Belarus.
How did the idea of creating a YouTube channel come about?
Nikita:
Where did you think about creating YouTube, already in prison?
Carder:
No, I never thought about YouTube at all, I certainly knew the history of this company, how much it was sold for, for 1.65 billion dollars, I think, in 2005 or 2006, everyone was shocked, how much Google paid for it, and now it’s worth, damn, a trillion, or even several. But I’ve never watched anything on YouTube, never. That is, I was released in some 2015, I watched a couple of videos and in prison I didn’t watch YouTube, well, not at all.
In 2015, after my release, I watched a couple of videos on how to pump up my abs, then a couple of music videos and somehow I gave up on this YouTube, and then in 2018 my friend wrote to me from Sweden, like, look there about competitors of your cashback, there was a video like that filmed on the Transformer channel.
Well, I watched it, it’s cool, I think I started watching YouTube since then, I watched Transformer for a long time before his disgraces, Dudya sometimes watched it, Shikhman, I like to talk to the channel. Travel, by the way, I sometimes watch bloggers, for some reason I started watching Ptushkin, he has such good typos, he started with Berningman, Berningman, then about Sweden, it’s fascinating.
Advertising in the issue is 45 thousand dollars!
Carder:
Well, I never thought about my channel, and then I called Transformer, I said how much money I had, a lot of investor money on hand, well, and all sorts of my own, maybe fifty thousand dollars were free and I needed to advertise the cashback somehow. I called Transformer, his people there, how much will you charge for advertising the issues, they say 45 thousand dollars, well, 3 million rubles, 45 thousand dollars, I think, no, for 45 thousand dollars I will make two such channels.
Nikita:
And there won’t be any feedback, of course, there won’t be any profit.
Carder:
Yes, yes, yes. Do you know how many clients I would have gotten from there, well, approximately there, well, a thousand maximum, that is, it would have cost me, how much, 45 dollars per client or something, well, 45. Yes, one client would have cost me 45 dollars, although I could get it for a dollar from contextual advertising in those years.
Well, accordingly, I didn’t pay anyone anything, I made my own channel.
Nikita:
And invested in it?
Carder:
No, I didn’t invest there at all, I didn’t invest at all, because, you see, I didn’t really have anything to invest. It was investor money, not something I could give there. Now I’m going to make my own channel, because I made the channel in September three years ago and in December I took the chain to the pawnshop. I already had a channel at that time.
Nikita:
How did you start on the channel? An interview right away?
Carder:
Yes. I had an interview.
Nikita:
Why an interview?
Carder:
Well, I somehow prefer to build a narrative in the format of a dialogue, because I even used a lot of dialogue in the book. Some are real, some are fictional. For example, I need to explain to readers some difficult moment how the cards are arranged, how it all happens, how the theft from them.
And I present it in the form of a dialogue with a lawyer, as if I were telling the lawyer how something was going on, although in any case there was no such dialogue between us, she understood from the papers that… That’s why I loved the dialogue and everything, and accordingly, interviews are closer to me. Well, plus this genre, I would also like to do travel, I like it, but I can’t due to the limitations of my travel around the world.
That’s why interviews, due to the fact that you don’t need to go anywhere, you come across interesting people, acquaintances, quite a lot of views and it’s easy to shoot.
How to protect your card from being hacked.
Nikita:
What are the most famous ways to steal money from a card, so that viewers can watch and understand how to protect their card so as not to lose money?
Carder:
Well, first of all, you don’t need to show its number anywhere.
Nikita:
Even on the front of which?
Carder:
Yes, yes. We give our number to someone every day, but in fact, technically, to steal money, only this number is enough. I already explained that on Amazon, the CVV code is not needed, on Aliexpress it is needed, but an SMS is not needed, for example, but in general, technically, only the card number is enough, look what we do. We take the number, we do not have an expiration date for the card, but let’s say Sber, here I have a card, I just received it, Sber is given for 2 years, Tinkoff gave me for 8 years, but until the 26th year, and SBER for 2 years, i.e. you have 24 attempts and the necessary month-year combination is on hand. I’m theorizing now, but without any problems even without a month and a year, without a CC, i.e. it can be stolen, the number is there for 24 attempts, you selected the correct expiration date, that’s it, you entered it into Amazon.
And they can drive out a large amount? Well, not more than what you have on the card, and if the card is a credit card, then they will drive you into debt, and then you will owe the bank.
Nikita:
They can easily steal the names on the card overnight?
Carder:
Yes, why?
Nikita:
And the exchanges should block the fact, no?
Carder:
Sometimes they block, sometimes they don’t. They usually block for repeated transactions, for example, for large amounts. For example, if I transfer 200 thousand from you at 1 am and at 5 am, then most likely nothing will be blocked. But if I do it with a difference of a minute, then of course they will block and contact me, so do not tell anyone the card number and so on, now fortunately in the same Russia there is SBP, it is a fast payment system and you can simply transfer by phone, then do not fall for it, this is a big problem now in fact, do not fall for these calls from the bank, like bank fraudsters are calling you, oh, they are stealing money from your card, you take measures there, tell us this, that, that, they They just when you tell them the card number, by the way, they sometimes know your card number, because databases of various microloans, insurance companies, something else are leaked into the network, where your card number and expiration date may be.
Nikita:
They can even buy this database, right?
Carder:
Yes, yes, of course. Or they can trick you using these social engineering methods, when they call you, again when they call you they use such human characteristics, fear, for example, they tell you that they are stealing an amount from you, you are afraid of losing your money, especially if it is a lot, if it is a loan. That is, they use fear, and then there is a constant lack of time, that any minute now, if you do not do something quickly, then in a minute there will be no money, let’s say.
And you just need to understand that the bank almost never calls. That’s what I’m saying, when it calls, when you have several quick recurring transactions for some significant amounts, well, not typical for it.
Nikita:
And they ask, are you transferring, yes or no?
Carder:
Yes, and it does not ask you for your CV code or PIN code from your card, it does not say anything, it will ask for a code word, maybe, and even then they rarely ask in such cases. They ask for a code word when you usually call with a code question, but they call, they ask for a house number, for example, yours, or an apartment, well, that’s usually it, and they ask to confirm the transaction, you say yes or no. That is, first, remember that the bank almost never calls, if they called you and you have doubts that it is a bank or not, just hang up and call the bank back.
This is the real scourge of this telephone fraud now and the amounts that go through are huge, and then you can practically do nothing, the police do not want to. The bank does not restore the amounts? Well, if you take it in percentage terms, then about 15% of victims restore them. These are our CIS banks.
Abroad they are not like that, for example in the US and Europe I worked with them all my life, they are not so technologically advanced, they do not have many applications, even everything is through the website, but they are reliable, you are more protected by the law, your funds too. Ours are very technologically advanced, I would probably even say that they are probably number one in the world in terms of their technologies, but in terms of reliability, security, in relation to clients they are nothing.
Nikita:
How to clean out these scammers who are around your money? Is it possible to track this somehow?
Carder:
Yes, practically nothing, because what do they do, if you dictate the card number over the phone, they can also say, now an SMS will come, the SMS is a security check, it is a regular SMS for withdrawing money, and that’s it, you tell them an SMS, they, you know, take it and directly money transfer services like PaySend.Com, TransferGo, transfer it to their card, they essentially wait for an SMS from you, and that’s it, the card number may already be there and so on, they already know everything.
Therefore, you need to be vigilant, of course, because it is practically impossible to get it back, especially if the transaction was confirmed by SMS, for the bank the SMS and PIN is a sign that it was you who made the transaction, and it is practically impossible to argue anymore.
How do the police find cybercriminals?
Nikita:
Look, how do they then develop, find, and close cybercriminals? Not at your premiere, but at the premiere of all the others, then we will move on to you.
Carder:
Well, mostly with repeated actions, that is, when you already have some kind of pattern, a certain style appears, that is, when you steal, if you steal once, for example, I film on my channel a lot of security officers from various companies, cybersecurity, computer information security. They also say that if you steal a large sum once, several million dollars, it is not at all a fact that you will be found. And when you start doing it systematically, you leave more traces.
And they have acquired traces, for example, they have stolen a lot of fingers, of course, and even, you know, like in small countries, like Belarus, we ourselves attract attention to ourselves, a 20-year-old guy gets a car for 50 or 500 thousand dollars. It seems to me that many have been caught in cars.
Nikita:
And how did they develop you personally? And how did they close you down? Tell me more. You said that you were developed by an agent from America, but how exactly did the arrest itself happen? How did America contact Belarus?
Carder:
I suspect I contacted them by fax. Just kidding. What was the first time I was closed down for? My drops, that is, people, yes, went to Belarusian stores with my cards. That is, we broke the rule not to work there in your own country. In general, you need to work somewhere far away abroad, and not in your own country where you live. And they went to the stores, bought something there. Well, we already had few terminals, POS terminals by card in those years, there it was 2002, maybe 2001.
It was difficult to pay, few stores, accordingly, we went to the same stores several times for large sums, bought, there somewhere we even bought some exotic things, 20 boxes of vodka, a couple of boxes of cognac, cigarettes, well, liquid goods in principle, because they can be quickly dumped for almost the same money, gold and so on.
Well, and they got busted … Well, it was strange in those years. Not the seller, well, we got busted. The security guard, not Evropa, there was some other chain before Evropa, Preston Market in Minsk, wrote down the license plate number of the car in which the vodka was loaded. He thought it was suspicious that the young guys walked quickly through the store, bought vodka, cigarettes, and a lot of cognac here and there, and took it away.
They took it away in an armored car minibus. Our friend had an armored car bus and he rode with us. Naturally, he knew about all this, but then he said in court, “I didn’t know, my friends asked me to give him a ride.” Well, they found us through this armored car minibus.
Nikita:
Found us how quickly?
Carder:
Well, I think a couple of months, probably. But I left for another country, my guys were detained, interrogated, and the case was in the archives.
Nikita:
Did you already understand that they were waiting for you in Belarus?
Carder:
Well, yes, I left, it just happened, I went to Poland on my own business, and they were detained at that moment, I understood that they would ask me questions and that’s it, I ran off to Ukraine, lived there for a year, then came back and basically went to jail.
Nikita:
And why did you come back, you understood that you would be put in jail?
Carder:
Well, it would have been decided from a greater point of view, it would have been decided by money and connections, the case was somehow not closed, but suspended and lay in the archive and that’s it.
Nikita:
I’ll interrupt you now. It turns out that if you had gone to jail for Anya and hadn’t decided anything, you would have served a long time? Obviously more than 2.5.
I was tortured in the Ukrainian Main Directorate for Combating Organized Crime.
Carder:
Yes, most likely so. Well, there were a lot of different factors that came together and it’s good that I didn’t go to jail right away. I came back from Ukraine because I was talking to certain carders there, well, they weren’t exactly cybercriminals, they were more like bandits, offline ones, you know. And that’s it, and they set me up there, well, I was talking to them, I was working there myself, they wanted to get money from me and turned me over to the cops, well, to their own tame cops, to the Ukrainian GUBOP, Kiev ones.
They beat me there and tortured me there for 6 hours, in short. There are stretchers, handcuffs, you’re standing on the stretcher and the handcuffs are like this between your legs, you’re standing with your forehead against the closet, leaning against it, they’re still hitting your legs, your legs are spreading, how long do you do this, well, for about 5 minutes you can stand on the wide stretcher, handcuffs,
and then your hips just go numb, it turns out that your hips are here and you, willy-nilly, you fall back, well, you really fall and fall, and you fall on your hands, you hammer these handcuffs even harder, then they put a gas mask on my head with this Captain Black, they lit a cigarette, put it in there so that I could smoke there, well, and you fall there, and some trash will fall on top of you, and hit you in the chest with this elbow. What do you think for? But I knew it was a setup.
A person from their circle warned me that something was being prepared against them, but I didn’t even imagine that they, like the criminals, the underworld and so on, would go through the cops. Well, that’s how things are done in the criminal world. And that’s it, and I understand that they’re just beating me up, well, just for show. Well, they’re beating me up pretty badly, but it’s half-hearted. If they’d screwed me over for something serious, they would have killed me altogether. But here it was half-hearted and that’s it, and then I hear, yeah, we have, yeah, in an hour, I already understand that in an hour they’ll come for me and the movie will start.
And the movie really did start, these guys scolded me, the dudes came for me. The guy who told me… The criminals came with…
Nikita:
You, right?
Carder:
No, the guy who told me everything against you, but couldn’t do anything about it, came. And we had a very good relationship for a long time, now we’ve just lost contact. Cool guy. Yeah, and those thugs kind of scolded me, saying that you got caught somewhere, led such a careless lifestyle, got caught somewhere. And if it weren’t for us, in short, yeah… Like, he wouldn’t have come out. Yeah, our friend, or rather, he lives in your house, he saw you by accident.
Well, that’s what it says. It’s a standard theme, yes, for them. And they asked and said that now I owe them for solving the issue, not even cash, but a Toyota Camry, to buy something new, but it costs 35 thousand dollars, well, a strange act by the way, I would have asked for cash in their place, well, fuck this Toyota, they asked for 35 thousand dollars for this Toyota, well, and I lived for a few days under their supervision there on the grid, there they assigned someone to me, well, by the way, a cool guy, I quickly won him over, we were constantly getting high through water, but I live with him, practically in captivity, when the cops let me go, I live in a rented apartment, I have no laptops, no passports, no money, nothing, then they brought my laptops, and I won over this guy, we were constantly getting high, I even helped him with money, he gave the cop a black eye, some kind of operation had to be paid for, I gave him from 600 to 1000 dollars, and he was already mine man, you know?
Nikita:
And he let you go?
Carder:
Well, not just me physically, I could have hit him, but he was stronger, admittedly, and run away from there, but I somehow wanted to do everything beautifully, and he already, well, how long, I’ve been living there for, probably a week, he already started going somewhere on his own business. I’ll leave now on my own business, and you’ll just leave and that’s it. I say, okay. He talked, then he even gave me my things in Belarus.
Nikita:
You were somehow lucky, right, I guess?
Carder:
Well, I don’t know.
Nikita:
Listen, at least you got caught by Eina with one widow.
Carder:
Yeah, yeah. I arrived, and my stepfather, my mother had an unsuccessful second marriage, like she had a marriage, and there was this moron, he hated me, my stepfather, he just drank all his life, was violent, you know, and I stood up for him and kept telling my mother, go away, you’re an idiot, that is, well, like I’m already independent, I have money, I have everything, that you live with a drunkard and this abuser, yeah. And he, well, I told him how it was, how the situation was, he believed that I was the cause of all his troubles, not the alcohol, not the beatings, but I was the cause of his troubles.
Yeah. And so he went to the KGB and turned me in, that I was in Belarus, there might be a case against me, here and there, the cops don’t do anything, and here I came back and live in luxury. Well, I lived then, yeah, I immediately got a car for 50 thousand dollars.
Nikita:
What kind of car was it?
Carder:
E-class 211, they had just come out, Mercedes, and I was 21 years old, and that was it. And so he ratted me out, and, in short, they locked me up, that’s how it happened. But in fairness I should add that karma, yes, here’s a boomerang, by the way, why am I so worried about justice, about win-win, living by conscience, that in my case, if I do something shitty, karma catches up with me very quickly, literally within a week and hits me in the head 2-3 times harder than the evil that I caused.
And the same thing happens to me, whoever does bad to me. Yes, one of these bandits is already dead, it happened without my participation, he was killed in Moscow, even though he is a Kiev bandit, he was killed in Moscow, the second one is still alive, and this stepfather of mine came to visit me in the neighboring cell, he never had problems with law enforcement agencies in 53 years of his life and he went to jail for murder, can you imagine, while drunk.
My mother had already left him when I was put in jail, she was already renting a separate apartment, and he killed someone with a bottle, strangled him, that is, while drunk. And I asked the cops in Minsk, on Volodarka, I said, well, let’s decide so that he ends up in my cell there, at least for a few hours. And, in short, they didn’t give him up, because… What did you want to do with him? Well, I don’t know, something would have been decided on the spot.
Nikita:
Make fun of him? Well, he wouldn’t have physically beaten him, beaten him, broken him?
Carder:
Unlikely, but they would have somehow indicated something, in short, I don’t know, maybe it’s good that they didn’t put him in my cell, but he simply understood right away that I could do something there, having money, connections, good relations with any people, including the cops, he immediately rushed to the owner of the prison and wrote a statement asking under no circumstances to put me in the same cell with Pavlovich, well, that is, there was a statement, and to me, my people say that we would be happy to, but no way, well and this, give it to you, they say, you don’t need this. I say, okay. Well, that’s how it happened, and that’s it, and I’ve been sitting since then.
Earnings from YouTube per month.
Nikita:
How much do you manage to earn from YouTube per month?
Carder:
I have my first advertising contract, yes, I got my first money when I had 40 thousand on my channel, one advertiser came, he paid 1000 dollars for 7 episodes of the period, that was my first long-term contract. Well, it always brings me over 20,000 dollars, now for 400-50,000 subscribers.
If you calculate the cash specifically, then this is somewhere exactly what they pay from advertising, for me, I will show a screenshot and you can attach it, who won’t believe it, for me in June, I got 5600 just for views, or 5400, in short, I got over five thousand dollars in June.
Nikita:
Well, on average, about four thousand a month with monetization only?
Carder:
For July, for June five four hundred, for July three seven fifty, for August, now over a thousand has dripped in seven days. Well, my dear audience, ninety-six percent of men, half of them twenty-five thirty-four, that is fifty percent of the audience, this is the most valuable age and I don’t understand some advertisers who come, you know, and say, oh, Litres is the same, for example, oh, we’ll come to your channel when you need a million, when you have a million subscribers there.
Or someone advertises, like, says, well, provide us with 400 thousand views, like, they need coverage and so on. I do this, since I am a practicing businessman myself, yes, on the Internet there, in all sorts of projects, I do not understand this, that is, that is, let’s figure it out for you, a funny phrase checkers or to go.
So to go is sales, that is, you want sales or just to be known. But many do not understand this and take advertising from bloggers thoughtlessly, take from the wrong ones, as a rule, large channels have a much worse return on advertising, because …
Nikita:
And the price tags are astronomical.
Carder:
Well, of course, yes, like in the issue with the transformer, we said, that is, it would be overpriced approximately 40 times more than I could get from other sources, so you need to take from smaller bloggers, who are highly trusted, like me, very highly trusted. Firstly, I didn’t let anyone down, I didn’t advertise any scams, secondly, I responded to almost every comment, always.
And I still have YouTube Studio on my phone and I just get comments with floats, pushes, yes, I still read 90% of the comments, I answer a little less often than I used to answer almost every one, now I answer about 30% of the comments, but that’s still tens of thousands of answers a year, and it turns out that such a close community has turned out, that’s why my advertising is expensive, the cheapest advertising I have is if I just insert your pre-roll, let’s say, a video you recorded, I’ll put it in for myself somewhere, I think, two thousand, probably, dollars, And all this allows me to earn there, well, twelve is probably, that’s exactly cash.m, twelve was the worst month, it was July, June was generally a good July from cash.m, plus, well, monetization, twelve plus, let’s say, four, yes, that’s already sixteen, and a number of indirect incomes, because from the book there’s still some money here and there, thousands of dollars flew in, let’s say, in cashback service and drive clients, that is, income comes from them. I advertise a number of my other projects and products, a number of all sorts of partners.
Nikita:
I want to say that the link to Sergey’s channel will be in the description under the video, we also put your telegram, subscribe to his resources, also if someone has any interesting advertising offers, write to me by mail, the mail will also be in the description.
Carder:
Yes, Nikita will become an advertising agent.
Nikita:
What other businesses do you have besides the YouTube channel?
Carder:
Well, I started a second YouTube channel in English, it’s still going well, not a slouch, there are almost 2,300 subscribers, but that’s a pittance, well, I don’t have time to deal with it, I do it on a static principle, but now I’ve hired a specific person who shortens the episodes, because you and I can talk there, they know you, I know them, for a long time, yes, they’ll watch an hour-long one, especially if it’s rich and interesting, but they don’t know me there yet, so it’s better not to make long episodes for a young channel.
And so they shorten my episodes and give them to a translator. The big problem was finding a speaker with good English, pronunciation, grammar, and especially pronunciation. I have five telegram channels, but that’s all media, a couple of websites, a book, vodka, merch, I have T-shirts with an onion, with the Thor emblem, but I classify all of this as medicine, as businesses, cashback service, secret discounter com, then there’s one cybersecurity startup now that checks the IP address, let’s say you have an online casino or bookmaker or payment system or just some kind of store, and checks the IP address, that is, whether they use a proxy, proxy, if it has something to hide, yes, it can. Well, not the site, but the user, specifically the client.
We made this startup, then I have several small businesses, ratings of cashback services, which, well, basically attract traffic to me, they collect free traffic from search engines, which I convert into my cashback service, well, and others, and there are affiliate links, and in principle it makes no difference to me whether they register with me, but mine is better, I will earn more, but even if they do not register with me, but with my competitor, I will still receive some money through the referral link.
Then we have now made Otzovik, a very large one, in terms of its concept it turns out to be the best Otzovik in the world, in terms of its functions, in terms of monetization capabilities. What is it? Otzovik is a review service on the Internet, it doesn’t matter about a restaurant, about anything, about a book.
We did that, then on October 1st we are launching an app for bloggers, I am an investor there, recall me, I am an investor and mentor there, due to the fact that I was in the Internet business, I give the guys not only money, connections and free advertising, for example, on my channel and on the channels of my friends, but I also give expertise, that is, I tell them that this is where they need to go, this is not necessary, because I myself have made these bumps in business in general, yes, in the Internet business, and in any business.
There are two big problems, the first of them is, well, maybe the market is narrow, maybe no one needs it, this is a big problem, and the second significant one is the need for the economy, when people have done something, but lose sight of the cost of attracting a client, then there is one client in cashbacks, for example, he brings me one and a half dollars a year, one registration, it is clear that a hundred people registered, not all buy, but if we divide by the total number of registrations, it turns out that one registration brings me one and a half dollars a year, and his attraction costs five dollars, that is, for three years I have to hang around him so that he does not fall off, does not leave, just to get my money back. This is called unit economics, when people do not calculate many businesses, even seemingly good, interesting, especially on the Internet, they close, and every year the cost of attracting clients is growing.
Well, and probably the third big problem, it is also very important, it is necessary in any business, I went through this in my own, so I advise my not students, but mentees with a light heart, from all directions and ideas Let me choose right away, the RED principle is 2080, let us choose several ideas at once that will bring us the fastest possible result in a short time, the fastest possible money, something else, then everything else is also interesting, but we will implement it later, and I do not yet fully master this skill, I understand that it is necessary, and so I try to hone it precisely from the entire spectrum of ideas and directions in business, in commerce, in the media to choose the most important thing.
Monthly income.
Nikita:
What is your monthly income in general?
Carder:
Well, I think about 30 thousand dollars, well, maybe a little more. I know very well what my monthly expenses are. That is, I have 490 thousand, this is my employee salaries, I pay 109 thousand for rent of an apartment and rent of an office.
Nikita:
How much does an office cost per month, rent?
Carder:
The office, we have now, we had 90, in short, we paid 90 thousand, but now we are expanding, we will have 160 square meters and we will pay 90 plus 50, we 100 plus 60, 150 thousand a month, I will pay now.
Nikita:
In your office, you have a team specifically for working with YouTube and everything together, a cashback service and everyone is responsible for their own.
Carder:
Well, you see, since there is a lot of space, yes, now it is 90, soon it will be introduced and there will be 160, we have our own studio there, of course, we will now rent it out, because it is idle, it is better for people to film in cool interiors, I even have an exhibition of contemporary art, my friend has an art gallery, and he brings contemporary art and changes the paintings once a month, that is, it is signed there, you can even buy them there.
But it doesn’t matter, I want the studio, for example, to cover my expenses on it, on the operator, salary, etc., so we will rent it out now.
Nikita:
What are your further plans and goals for the future?
Carder:
Resolve the issue with America so that I can travel. I really want to go to Italy, for example, I am in love with this country, but I have not been there and cannot yet. Perhaps move to Switzerland, but then live there for the rest of my life. Develop my Internet projects, without neglecting the media, because the media gives great power, influence and the opportunity to do business on a completely different level.
Well, I really don’t want to do business, but I was simply forced to do so at some point and now, since these children of mine have been created, projects, that is, I want to bring each of them to some kind of ideal and possibly sell them, or receive some income from them constantly. Most of all I want to do social work, to create a project This is exactly what it is, to raise awareness, so to speak, in the world.
A little bit of esotericism, but that’s not the point. That is, to gather together all the most developed people on the planet, like, each of us probably has such a friend, that like you look at him, a talented person, talented in sports, everywhere, well, these are the levels of Musk, Jobs, people like that, to gather them in some kind of closed club, I am already accused of Freemasonry and after this video they will also be accused, but I don’t know what kind of organizational forum to gather them right away, it will be some kind of forum, a channel, some other project, well, some kind of media, let’s say, yes, and simply among them to advance the most progressive ideas, that is, to debunk myths, to do charity work, business, including reducing the amount of evil in the whole world, because all these troubles have not gone away anywhere, also the uneven distribution of wealth, one of the troubles, that is, 35 thousand people a day die of hunger, a day, I myself was starving in prison, I ate these crackers, that’s why all this exists, and you know, such a thing, somehow to reduce dependence on politicians, so to speak, if I may say it in one phrase, to force people to think with their own minds, that is, not to listen to someone there, politicians, not to allow them to make decisions for themselves, but simply so that people think more, realize, and somehow the amount of evil in the world will decrease.
Nikita:
In general, to act on the call of the heart, so to speak.
Carder:
Well, I think this is my mission in prison, because I read a lot of literature, esoteric, scientific and all this and it was revealed to me, I want to do this project more than anything, to somehow reduce the amount of evil, hunger, wars and so on in the world. Perhaps I will not succeed, that is, there have been many attempts, there is Jacques Fresco, and the Venus project and so on, but I think that I should try, and I am already involved in charity work in principle, within the framework of the cashback service we help four charitable foundations of different focus, two Russian, two Belarusian, and I want to register my own foundation, Freedom Forever, I came up with a name for it, freely forever, just to transfer normal, worthy books, somehow to prisons and zones. Well, for now in the CIS, and then all over the world.
Nikita:
So that people do not become stupid, educate themselves, develop themselves, walk as people, not continuing this evil.
Carder:
Because the worst thing there is still the information famine. And you know, about prison, I also need to add that probably 90% of them are worthy of being there, they are the difficult ones, who have never done anything good, never will. But even in the maximum security zone, in the general one, I think 20 percent of the guys can be returned to normal life, in the maximum security zone no more than 10, but they can still be returned.
And so I do this for these, I want to do this for these 10% of people, because most of all, probably, the change in my consciousness, my worldview, yes, was influenced by the right books, and so I want fewer people to be behind bars, and more to do useful things, namely win-win, beneficial to all interested parties, because crime is still one side, that is, you steal well for yourself, bad for everyone else around, bad for the victims, bad for the cops who are investigating your case, a vacation spot, for example, and so on, and in general, but when you are engaged in business, media, some charity projects and do not harm anyone, then in principle everyone is only good. Win-win, beneficial to all interested parties.
Nikita:
Everything is clear. We wish you good luck. I would like to ask you, friends, to leave a comment, to ask Sergey a question that we did not raise in this topic. If there are many willing, then I think that Sergey will agree to a second interview. We will go to him in Moscow, show him his office and talk to the questions you ask in the comments. So write, don’t be shy.
Carder:
And one more thing, I read comments not only on my channel, I read on guest channels too, so I will read on yours too, so whoever of you writes, asks me the most interesting question or just, I don’t know, makes me laugh, in short, for the most interesting comment I will gladly sign my book with an autograph and leave the address, I will send it to you, Nikita will announce the winner on his Telegram, for example.
Nikita:
So yes.
Carder:
That’s it, thank you.
